Michael: Your premise is correct in that Satan doesn’t have God’s power. Remember, Satan was created by God and can only do what God allows him to do. God has allowed false teachings, but He also has allowed true teachings. People have difficulty deciding what is the true teaching. The prophecies of the Messiah and Jesus Christ fulfilling them (plus the genealogy in Matthew) is the clear difference between the truth and false teachings. No other religion has anything close to this.
Thomas: Satan was created by God? That is a new thought for me and I appreciate you introducing it. Can you tell me the reference for this? This doesn’t seem to go with anything I have read in the Bible. It is an interesting thought though.
Michael: I wont quote the Bible since you will just say Satan wrote it, God implies creator, He was not created. He lives outside of his creation and has the power to create. You yourself said Satan can’t create therefore he could not be the creator. That makes him a created being like you and me. He is not equal to God
Thomas: Quoting the Bible is fine, I do it frequently. The notion that Satan wrote the Bible is simply a logical argument based on what many who believe there is a Satan believe his powers and motives to be and taking that belief in an analysis of some part of the Bible. I don’t believe in Satan but the concept is fascinating to me. My notion of Satan and God are that they both existed before the creation of Earth kind of like brothers, and that when God created earth Satan was jealous.
I agree with all you write except “That makes him a created being like you and me.” I’m trying to work this through. First, I’m dropping “like you and me” because you and I certainly don’t have the powers attributed to Satan. (Let me know if I’m wrong in this.) As for the thought that God created Satan, I’m not aware of anything in the Bible (I will not refute anything you quote from the Bible by saying Satan wrote it.) so I’d be happy to know where you have gotten that thought. The second question that raises is why. Why did God create Satan?
Michael: God created angels with Lucifer as most beautiful and highest position. Apparently God gave them free will like he did man. Lucifer wanted to be worshiped like God and rebelled along with a third of the angels. These are Satan and demons. They don live in Hell yet as they roam Earth deceiving and tempting. God calls him the prince of this world. So he was created like we were and willful sin has wrecked this world. Calvinists believe man has no free will and that God planned it exactly this way but I believe he gave us free will to chose to love and follow him and we are the ones messing up the world
Thomas: Please tell me the source of this information. I’m pretty sure it’s not in the Bible but I might have missed something.
Michael: It’s easier just to use this link I found rather than mention them myself. http://baptistbulletin.org/?p=13559
Thomas: That link is quite clear. Thank you. I’ve just started looking up the passages referenced and will give all this more thought. Perhaps you can help me with Ezekiel 28: 12-15. Is Tyrus an alias of Satan? It seems like Tyrus is a human rather than an angel. This may be where I have trouble following the story that God created Satan. I don’t think it says anything like that in the Bible unless you change some names and/or make some assumptions. If the Bible is God’s word, it seems we ought to pretty much stick with his words.
Michael: God changed Lucifer to Satan, Saul to Paul, Abram to Abraham because they had changed character and he gave them new names that suited their new character good or bad. He also spoke of cities as if they were a person like Sodom and Babylon. Yes Tyrus went from a city that traded Jews into slavery into Antichrist/Satan. Confusing but not more than parables which Jesus did on purpose.
Thomas: Which of the three theories about when Satan’s sinning occurred do you believe? If I understand the link, this theory about Satan is just a theory. If the Bible is God’s word, why does man today have to make up theories about it? The following quote from the web site you sent me seems to sums up the theories:“So it would seem best to believe that Satan’s sinning occurred after the six days of creation but before man fell into sin, possibly in just a matter of days.” Are you comfortable with this? (emphasis mine)
Michael: I believe in a young earth. I don’t believe in the gap theory or macro evolution. There are dinosaur fossils but not missing link fossils. So desperate are the evolutionists they came up with the craziest theory ever called punctuated equilibrium which means the evolutionary change is rapid and sudden instead of slow and steady. Sounds like creation to me.
God does make a point to say His ways are not our ways. The important parts of the Bible, the gospel of Christ, are very simple to understand. Don’t get caught up in doctrinal arguments. Salvation through Christ is what it is about and none of my words will ever convince you. Read Matthew mark Luke and john ask God to convince you of the real truth.
Thomas: I commend you an saying “I believe”. No one can argue with a person’s belief because it is personal, it is yours just as other people’s beliefs are theirs. I think we get in trouble when we get belief and knowledge mixed up.
[stay tuned, this dialogue goes on]